So, I'm guessing the pressure curve isn't as severe as some of the faster burners. Now theres an old memory. Content . Classics go well together: circa 1909 S&W .38 Special and traditional 148-grain wadcutter load of 2.7 grains of Bullseye. I believe this particular bullet is meant for the 9mm,but drops at 358. Use the lead bullet loads with the plated and you will be fine. I think you will find since the .38 special is headspaced on the rim your case length is very important to achieve your best accuracy. All three of those powders have published load data for that weight bullet in .38 Special. We look at three classics: one each in .45 ACP, .38 Special, and 9mm. What sort of wildlife are you thinking would be a good application for this self-defense load? For 3 that actually doesnt kick too badly. An early Les Baer .45 knotted a group of the lead SWCs into a tight 1.3-inch group, while an M&P .45 did 1.25 inches. 7.8 gr Blue Dot 1,170 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 7.0 gr Pressure: 15,700 4.5 gr Bullseye 1,085 fps 1.43" Fed 100 Alliant Suggested starting load: 4.1 gr Pressure: 14,900 5 are good choices. Bullseye or Titegroup cover 90% or more of my .38 Special loadings. It will then fit in your 38 Special gun. 110gr JHP! I just bought some 158 gr SWC bullets that are pure lead. Any discussion of Bullseye is incomplete without mentioning a few of the downsides. I almost spit out my drink when I read your comment. Were all familiar with the old adage, Never bring a knife to a gunfight. And while we should, The active shooter is a relatively new phenomenon in the grand scheme of things. Just got back into reloading 38 special again after a long hiatus with no revolver, and was instantly reminded of what a joy it is to reload. Compac for my little finger to wrap around under the butt. I load my 38 target ammo to 3.5 grainsand my self defense 38 to 3.8 grains, when using 158 grain bullets (and Bullseye). My point being is I used the resources I have, looked elsewhere (The High Road, The Firing Line), and wanted to try here. Required fields are marked *. A significant difference in speeds is usually noted. 100 except where otherwise noted in "remarks" Be Alert: Publisher cannot be responsible for errors in published load data. Anything goes with bullets. Hehe, back before Nick skimmed down. The 4.0 grain load is relatively mild recoil and was accurate. Going up to 3.9 Gr for +P. Load shot well out of a variety of service handguns. May 15, 2012. kc2za said: Hi All, I have been loading .38 spl with 2.7 gr. Heck, 38s in a J frame arent fun- theres no way a 327 Mag isnt worse. Not as easy to find brass these days as it is not the most popular round anymore. Love my 642 for concealed carry, but have an SP101 (also a snubby) in .38 special (only) for use on the range. ,I looked at Speer data, nothing there. IF YOU ARE USING SWAGED 158GR BULLETS 3.1 WILL WORK, IF USING HARD CAST 3.3 IS NEEDED. Robert Frost. All the data says this should be an OK load , even "mid-range" for non +p. Congratulations on spelling loath right. 38 Special, all bullet weights Bullet Powder Weight Powder Velocity OAL Primer Source 110gr JHP! When using a 158 gr. I keep it under my seat in case I get an unwanted intruder and I cant get to my IWB semi auto. THAT TIME IS BETTER SPENT LEARNING HOW TO SHOOT THE REVOLVER IN THE RAPID FIRE PORTION. A Tyler T grip would have helped here, but is incompatible w/ factory grips. WST is a good powder for a very specialized load. Because we have no action to cycle, the novice reloader can afford to be off a bit if they have an entry-level scale or powder dispenser. Notes: primer: CCI 500; case: Speer; NOTE: All loads are maximum. The .38 Special is the most popular of all centerfire revolver cartridges. Dont take this the wrong way; Im guessing the average age of .38 spl fans is about my age (70). I favor the appearance of the C/T load and find it slightly easier to grab and orient in the loading process. Brass collection is easy since it doesnt eject. Just look for a lead remover tool with bronze screens. I go with the cheap and easy shake and bake technique that requires only plastic Glad container with a lid, handful of black 6mm BBs and old toaster owen. Shot placement is just as important if not more. There is almost no recoil and the student can increase power level when they feel ready using the same gun. Initially I shot them out of my Dads prized Smith & Wesson 686 and learned a great deal about double-action shooting and what a truly accurate handgun can do with a wadcutter. During my first half century on this planet, my caliber of choice for defense was 45 ACP- but for everything else it was always 38 SPL. But not too tough. The stuff you learn shooting 20,000 reloads (on top of thousands of rounds of factory ammo) can be pretty interesting and I feel that Ive got a very good picture of what the .38 Special. A 4 inch barrel would be my choice as well. It is also one of the most pleasurable loads a shooter can touch off. Handload: 158 grain round nose lead /3.8 grains Bullseye MV 775 fps ME 210 ft./lbs. )Lastly, the .38 SPL has a very large following and materials can be had readily. The load is a great learning tool in .45 for beginner and experienced alike. I'm going to start with 3.8 grains. it seems awful confusing, but with time you will be able to interpolate the published data into something that will give you good starting points to work up your loads. As an old bullseye guy I've stuck with Bullseye powder for almost 30yearsusing lead bullets. The mention of a Lee Loader somewhere above took me back to the good-old days. Rules say (e) Ammunition- Any safe .38 caliber ammunition using the 158 grain round nose or Semi-Wadcutter bullet only. But, with jacketed bullets that doesn't seen to be working. The quality of the loads equals a bargain. VV N320, N330 and N340 are products of VihtaVouri Oy Company Thinking of using it in NRA Action pistol or PPC. I checked out Alliant's website-no data for flat point with the powders I have, but data for Gold Dot HPs for Bullseye and Unique. I recently picked up a 396 Nightguard and am a convert to the 44 Special! I miss those days. Bullseye is a little smoky, a lot sooty, and has a distinct odor. I did start out fawning over all of the tactical gear, but once I had that covered my tastes matured I think to love the wood and steel guns. 32 H&R Mag 21,000 That for just a nice shooting load one cant beat 148gr wad-cutter for pure fun. I always used mixed brass because it was all I had. I picked some up from my local Scheels yesterday. Also some WSF. You gotta try the S&W M342 Airlight TI. 1.455 in. 3.) What overal length of the cartridge? So if you find a "lead" load it is also a plated load. They are low because of swaged bullets. A bullet with a copper gas check or copper plating is best for INDOOR ranges to keep lead vapors out of the air. You cannot paste images directly. ), I very much wanted to start with some tried-and-true Bullseye loads, but it took an epic scavenger hunt across many months to find a canister of the elusive classic. Winchesters 231 or WSL are also good powders for the .38 special. The least is usually supplied as a large cylindrical billet weighing several hundred pounds. (This is prevalent among most aftermarket designs- they are smallest in the longest, strongest finger area, and largest at the bottom pinkie area.). A gun on you always works better than the gun left at home. It doesnt appear like there is much of an advantage in using WST with lighter weight bullets. Their biggest use is in making screws and small bolts. 9 and others like 2400 that are generally used for magnums). I started reloading 38 special as my first cartridge 8 years ago when I was 22, soooo.I have an old mans soul? Ive long since changed to a press, but that Lee Loader in its cardboard box is still in a storage box for obsolescent reloading gear. I have 4 handguns that will shoot .38. Really interested in getting the. It's given me good results in the 2, 3 and 4 inch barreled. Main issue is that the .44 spl. In fact, in the past I specifically sought out revolvers chambered in 38 SPL only, knowing I would never be putting a 357 Mag in it (I carried a 4 GP100 chambered in 38 SPL as a duty sidearm in the early 90s). 110gr JHP! accuracy. Load it using wadcutter specs, and seat the bullet flush, like a wadcutter. And Vihtavouris N320 and N321 fall in this range for burning times. You need a .357 Magnum revolver if you want to try a 9MM cylinder. Think that if a .44 spl. However recoil will be the limiting factor especially for the short line. If she had shot more, I would have probably bought another set of dies, to prevent the need for changing adjustments between the two. head I use 3.2gr. Just shows the importance of trying/checking the feel of a gun and if possible, test firing it, before you buy it. If you have a lightweight .38 or older gun, you may want to start with 10% less than max amounts listed above, and work up to the full loads. Your previous content has been restored. My J frame S&Ws are all older models, and came with the small grips that are still on some models. I am using this load in some .38 specials. Eventually somebody introduced me to tungsten carbide resizing dies, after which case life became near indefinite. 44 Rem Mag 36,000. COPYRIGHT 2021, THETRUTHABOUTGUNS.COM. Some people then claimed SAAMI raised the 357 Mag to 45,000. And, oh yeah. 750-850fps. Create an account in a few clicks or log in to continue. Click there and go to the load data lookup section . I simply took mixed brass and ran em through the Hornady Lock-N-Load AP press with the bare minimum preparation. It is a very versatile and useful round. But its also worth considering that its pushing the same size and weight projectile at the same velocity as the standard Army revolver load during the Civil War. . The upside of the grainage is that the small charges mean more loaded rounds per pound of powderhelpful since Bullseye can take a while to reacquire once the container is empty. I am aware of the plated bullet limitations on BE accuracy and am more interested in them for their "plinkability". Here is the dillema: The Lyman manual says starting load is 3.2 grains and MAX. The majority of my shooting with .38 has taken place with soft lead bullets. Depending on the drill, 200-grain .45s let shooter push faster or use available time to shoot better, with significantly less recoil than hardball. This is my plink load for the kids. This is not loaded 9mm ammo. It has been many years since I used a Lee Loader and a wooden mallet to reload 8mm Mauser. 6.) Have you all found different seat depths to work better than what's in the manual? Ive been reloading and shooting for over 40 years and love revolvers but 90% of the time my carry gun is a Sig 365 with a 12 round mag and a spare. I can not be held responsible for. These are hand loads.. load data was published in Lyman 50th edition.. WITH THE SWAGED BULLETS REDDING SELLS A PROFILE CRIMP DIE. Enter 38 Special. Ive not had a handgun entirely reject either load, so the recipe seems to be a worthy third alongside the previous .38 and .45. Its the kind of load that will make you fall in love with the 1911 all over again! As I said I am not familiar with your frame and suspect it is one of the latest models out by Smith. Any pistol competitions yet? One cool load Im working on is two pellets of 000 Buck. A revolver shooting .38 SPL only requires the power of your finger to make it fire and can thus be loaded with ammo that is extremely mild or hotter than hot. This is an easy-shooting load that can cause some power-philes to tusk-tusk and comment. I have the shrouded hammer version, the 638, and have been wary of training much with it because of its aluminum frame. Or does the CMP make the rules for DR, and the NRA admins it? A little shopping around might do better, as would casting the lead bullets. Dennis, I dont reload and Im only 72, but shooting the .38Spl in my 6 S&W 586 is a sublime experience. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up. Im still new to reloading, having done 2500 38 spl with bullseye. I bought him as a gift a 642 with the black rubber grips, a few speedloaders w/big knob tops, and Hornady 125 grain FTX loads. As you move up in loads, you at least need the gas check on the bottom of the bullet to prevent gas melting the lead and fouling the barrel. CorBon Self Defense, 38 Special, 125 Grain, Jacketed Hollow Point, +P, 20 Round Box 38125 ammunition in the same gun enables that shooter to hunt larger game and to fend off beasts that snarl. I went from 2.7to 4.0 gr and nothing to speak of. (See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.). No more lead in the barrel or on my hands. Like Wobbly. So . * Also internet references 2009, Copyright. The cartridge offers a great deal of zest and has thousands of possible load combinations. Choosing a bullet Recoil was so nasty that I quit after five shots and saved the rest of the box for my 6 Model 19 .357. How does WST compare to Bullseye powder? We've got some great loads for 158 coated and plated semi wadcutters, and we're trying something new. I just dont like practicing with it. That revolver is aluminum and cannot handle the pressure of 9MM. I have two editions of it from different years that have that data. I may have to rethink my plan. BrianEnos.com Although the .357 cylinders are the same length so they can be timed to a 642. Even though the gun was chambered for .357 Magnum, I plinked and practiced with a lot of .38s over the years. The instructors worked magic in many cases, but having a load like this to gradually work shooters onto full-strength loads would have been a great tool. When using a 158 gr. I load it almost exclusively though with either a powder coated or plated 125 grn bullet. It would have been too hot. A chameleon depending on your loads and the barrel length or action its fired from. I had ammo for some friends as low as 600 fps. No sh!t. The 158 gr cast plain base accuracy load was 4.0 gr 231 which gave 837 Fps and 15,900 psi. Left to right:148 gr. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account. JHP (now discontinued) 5 rounds . Min Charge Max Charge Optimal Charge Bullet Make Bullet Type Primer Notes; Hodgdon - 700-X: 125 gr. Hornady I dunno. A circa 1918 Colt gobbled them up, as did several other 1911s that can be particular about bullet profile. In fact, Hornady's handloading manual includes .357-inch bullets in the load data for the .38 Super, specifically 125-grain and 140-grain XTP bullets, along with .355-inch bullets, and their one remaining .356-inch bullet, the 125-grain HAP. Ask your Dealer, or call Hodgdon), has a Cowboy Load section, (near the center fold), that lists data for about all SASS calibers. Easiest way is casting lines and a sprue mark on nose or base. WST seems like such a good powder in .45 ACP that I thought I might try it. Canister Sizes: View All Bullseye Recipes Interesting. Enter to win an FN FAL Rifle. I reached an interesting number the other day. From my Hornady Third Edition manual 38 Special 158 Grain Lead Round Nose #3586 Win 231 3.0 Grains 650 FPS 4.4 Grains 850 FPS Now I will tell you from experience you do NOT want to load Lead Bullets Fast. These bullets shot to point of aim in modern S&W snubbies, but the older M10-5 was regulated with 158 grain bullets and 125's shoot low. Bullseye is primarily associated with .38 and .45after all, it says right on the bottle: Great for .38 Special and .45 Auto target loads. But it is equally at home in high-velocity auto loads. The Bullseye powder pushed five into two inches flat for another 1911 that is typically a four-inch gun. To many shooters, .45 ACP means 230-grain hardball at 830 fps. Winchester 231 is between Bullseye and Unique for the .38 special (see my personal load above). Shoots well in my K-38, 686, and a friend's K-38 at 50 yards in the Ransom rest. Great Cast Lead Bullet for IDPA. Never ransom rested it, but held 10 ring off sandbags. Bonus is the CT #305 grips are both large enough to be actually useful, and can use the laser, or turn it off if you dont need the laser. .38 brass isnt as common as 9, .40, or .45 brass at the range, but of all the revolver brass you can find its the most plentiful. I thought the DR program was NRA, not CMP. Here's what the Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook says for cast 125g flatpoint for 38 in the powders you mentioned. Rated 5.00 out of 5 based on 9 customer ratings. Wadcutters are tailor made for lightweight snubbie practice, allowing shooters to enjoy shooting the pocket guns. My hand ached for a week. I can usually keep 1.5" groups with it at 25 yards if I do my part. 9.) I'm still hunting for a DR load for my S&W M19-5. Thanks for the start load Power Pistol will run lower pressures for the same velocity than W-W 231. While I do have a GP100 in .357 magnum, I dont like shooting .38 special ammo out of it, because cleaning powder residue out of the longer chambers is a real bitch. If there is a search function for these forums (didn't see one) I'd be happy to use that too Go to the Alliant website and find the data for Unique and Bullseye. Posted March 2, 2013. Power Pistols works well in short auto cartridges and higher pressure cartridges but no so well with a 158 grain bullets in 38 Special. Oh, I practice with it. These grips seem quite comfortable and afford a pinkie finger rest for improved control albeit with a certain loss of concealability. IIRC, the NRA Action Pistol power floor is a "factor" of 125, which requires a full 1,000 fps for 125-gr bullets. You can post now and register later. Save my name, email, and website in this browser for the next time I comment. I carried a lightly customized 4 inch heavy barrel model 10 for years, with a black cerakote job. Components add up to far less than even generic grade factory ammo. ES 27 SD 12 Independence 130 grain FMJ round nose MV 892 fps ME 230 ft./lbs. 158 gr. This 1911 halved its normal so-so accuracy with 200-grain Hornady C/T SWC, shooting this nice two-inch group. I, like Spartacus, find the SAAMI recommendations an interesting spec for comparative purposes. On my J frame S&W without the CT #305 Laser Grips, I swapped out to a Hoque set. Insufficient crimping ) ARCHIVED. 110gr JHP! IIRC, I used 4.5 gr of Bullseye under a 125 gr lead bullet for a light plinker, and 5.6 gr of Bullseye under a 148 gr wadcutter (~815 fps, 4" bbl, probably around 750 fps out of a snub). http://www.alliantpowder.com/reloaders/Powder.aspx?powderid=1, I also have the Berry's 125gr plated flat point bullet and I am trying to find a min and max load with unique powder. 357 Magnum 35,000 LRNFP - your load, with a plated bullet should be Very Similar, or slightly slower and safer. WAP, WMR, WSF, WSL, 760, 748, 231 and 540 are products of Winchester, Components Div. Also compared a S&W 638 to the S&W 36. Agree 100% since I reload and shoot it since years, lost count. I'd rather shoot my .45 then. In my time with the cartridge, I have come to appreciate the mid to low end of the power spectrum and thus have made extensive use of Trail Boss powder and bullets such as Hornadys .358 158gr SWC. True enough that it doesnt make power factor for Custom Defensive Pistol in IDPA or major in USPSA competition. There are many fun uses for buckshot. more weight than the similar size CA .44 Bulldog, were available, a lot more people would also like the .44 spl. I tried 10 shots of each: 2.2, 2.4, 2.5, 2.7. Never got around to trying the T grips. accuracy. I thought about trying 2.5 gr. All right are Reserved Reload Ammo, Reloading The .45 ACP (Automatic Colt Pistol), hi=849 lo=728 ES=122 (powder up and down), hi=821 lo=684 ES=137 (powder up and down), hi=815 lo=637 ES=178 (powder in normal positions), hi=714 lo=549 ES=165 (powder up and down), hi=758 lo=693 ES=65 (powder up and down)(DO NOT USE LESS), Hi=886, Lo=861, ES=25 (This is a Carolina Cast bullet SWC-great cowboy load), hi=859 lo=743 ES=116 *(my personal medium load), hi=875 lo=685 ES=190.2(powder up and down), hi=710 lo=497 ES=213 (powder up and down), hi=791 lo=625 ES=166 (Powder up and down), hi=785 lo=670 ES=115 (powder up and down), hi=801, low=766 ES=35.32 in Contender 14 bbl. The only reason that my standard (everyday carry) self-defense handgun is not a .38 Special revolver is because I can conceal a semi-auto better (it isnt as fat as the cylinder on a revolver) and my semi-auto has 15 rounds of hard-hitting 180 grain bullets.